<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: ADHD, Biofeedback, Good Study Design and the Placebo Problem</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem</link>
	<description>ADHD, Dyslexia and Autism</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:23:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: FrazzleDazzle</title>
		<link>http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem/comment-page-1#comment-37575</link>
		<dc:creator>FrazzleDazzle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem#comment-37575</guid>
		<description>We have the pre- and post- AIMS scores (state tests comperable to SATS in the UK).  Within months of starting the program, my son had quite a leap from all of his previous years in reading/comprehension/fluency, etc.  I have his score sheets posted on his blog.  I do not see that as maturing, I do not see that as a placebo, it is pure objective stuff and I am so very proud of him and his hard work this last year on the program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have the pre- and post- AIMS scores (state tests comperable to SATS in the UK).  Within months of starting the program, my son had quite a leap from all of his previous years in reading/comprehension/fluency, etc.  I have his score sheets posted on his blog.  I do not see that as maturing, I do not see that as a placebo, it is pure objective stuff and I am so very proud of him and his hard work this last year on the program.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: myomancy</title>
		<link>http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem/comment-page-1#comment-37154</link>
		<dc:creator>myomancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem#comment-37154</guid>
		<description>Tom - Treated / untreated with what? on who?

Brainduck - It is odd that Dore does not publish even basic stats leaving me to assume the drop out rate is high, at least 50%. 

There would be other ways for Dore to gather useful data. Say the SAT scores for the 3 years before treatment plus the 1 year after treatment. There should be a notable improvement on an individual level and this data set could use the national average results as a baseline / control. Not an ideal study as the nay-sayers would claim any improvement is nothing to do with Dore but any sensible person would see it as good evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom &#8211; Treated / untreated with what? on who?</p>
<p>Brainduck &#8211; It is odd that Dore does not publish even basic stats leaving me to assume the drop out rate is high, at least 50%. </p>
<p>There would be other ways for Dore to gather useful data. Say the SAT scores for the 3 years before treatment plus the 1 year after treatment. There should be a notable improvement on an individual level and this data set could use the national average results as a baseline / control. Not an ideal study as the nay-sayers would claim any improvement is nothing to do with Dore but any sensible person would see it as good evidence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brainduck</title>
		<link>http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem/comment-page-1#comment-36979</link>
		<dc:creator>Brainduck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem#comment-36979</guid>
		<description>DORE don&#039;t even give stats on the sort of things you&#039;d expect to be basic housekeeping, such as % who do not complete the programme. That wouldn&#039;t need a trial, just a look through their accounts.

Similar problems come up in medical research all the time, and there are well established ethical &amp; procedural ways to deal with it. As I understand it you&#039;d want to show that the control group was not worse off than appropriate &#039;standard care&#039;. So you could have one group getting the usual school support. To control for the effects of attention, expectation, etc., you&#039;d need some treatment taking about the same amount of time &amp; effort. 

I was reading an interesting study today on dyslexia, where they had one group using whole-word reading, one group using a phonics approach, and one with no specific reading training but instead looking at &#039;classroom survival skills&#039; such as organisation &amp; planning.

Until you&#039;ve demonstrated a disproportionate advantage of one treatment it is ethical to test them - the alternative is that every child is a guinea-pig to no benefit.
Medical trials will often have a separate ethics committee who will be the only people with access to un-blinded data, so if part way through the trial one treatment is already clearly much better, the trial can be stopped &amp;  all groups given the most effective treatment.

Finances - the Welsh Assembly are having a look at SpLDs just now, &amp; I&#039;ve written to them suggesting that the costs of doing a big head-to-head trial over a few schools would be outweighed by the benefits of Welsh children having the most appropriate intervention after the trial is done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DORE don&#8217;t even give stats on the sort of things you&#8217;d expect to be basic housekeeping, such as % who do not complete the programme. That wouldn&#8217;t need a trial, just a look through their accounts.</p>
<p>Similar problems come up in medical research all the time, and there are well established ethical &amp; procedural ways to deal with it. As I understand it you&#8217;d want to show that the control group was not worse off than appropriate &#8217;standard care&#8217;. So you could have one group getting the usual school support. To control for the effects of attention, expectation, etc., you&#8217;d need some treatment taking about the same amount of time &amp; effort. </p>
<p>I was reading an interesting study today on dyslexia, where they had one group using whole-word reading, one group using a phonics approach, and one with no specific reading training but instead looking at &#8216;classroom survival skills&#8217; such as organisation &amp; planning.</p>
<p>Until you&#8217;ve demonstrated a disproportionate advantage of one treatment it is ethical to test them &#8211; the alternative is that every child is a guinea-pig to no benefit.<br />
Medical trials will often have a separate ethics committee who will be the only people with access to un-blinded data, so if part way through the trial one treatment is already clearly much better, the trial can be stopped &amp;  all groups given the most effective treatment.</p>
<p>Finances &#8211; the Welsh Assembly are having a look at SpLDs just now, &amp; I&#8217;ve written to them suggesting that the costs of doing a big head-to-head trial over a few schools would be outweighed by the benefits of Welsh children having the most appropriate intervention after the trial is done.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem/comment-page-1#comment-36951</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem#comment-36951</guid>
		<description>Its not possible to set up a perfect study, but what happens when the results are compared between treated/untreated?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its not possible to set up a perfect study, but what happens when the results are compared between treated/untreated?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: myomancy</title>
		<link>http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem/comment-page-1#comment-36898</link>
		<dc:creator>myomancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem#comment-36898</guid>
		<description>Thanks for kind words.

It is remarkable how little is scientifically proven. 

Ritalin, because it was created in the 1950s, had no evidence of its effectiveness on ADHD before doctors started prescribing it in the 80s. I&#039;m not even sure there was any evidence that Ritalin was safe to use with children at that point.

Education is even worse. Have you ever seen a scientific study on the effectiveness of schools? Our school days and lessons are no different than 1908 or even 1808. Its seems very doubtful that when schools as we know them  first came into existence that they just happened to hit on the perfect way to educate kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for kind words.</p>
<p>It is remarkable how little is scientifically proven. </p>
<p>Ritalin, because it was created in the 1950s, had no evidence of its effectiveness on ADHD before doctors started prescribing it in the 80s. I&#8217;m not even sure there was any evidence that Ritalin was safe to use with children at that point.</p>
<p>Education is even worse. Have you ever seen a scientific study on the effectiveness of schools? Our school days and lessons are no different than 1908 or even 1808. Its seems very doubtful that when schools as we know them  first came into existence that they just happened to hit on the perfect way to educate kids.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: FrazzleDazzle</title>
		<link>http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem/comment-page-1#comment-36888</link>
		<dc:creator>FrazzleDazzle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.myomancy.com/2008/02/adhd-biofeedback-good-study-design-and-the-placebo-problem#comment-36888</guid>
		<description>Very well said, Chris! Thank you very kindly for taking the time to explain the difficulties and issues with research regarding therapies such as these. 

If one would look at similar treatment therapies performed by OT&#039;s and vestibular rehab specialists, physical therapists, other types of rehab specialists, (all whom are quietly doing their work without anyone screeming down their necks that it is not scientifally-proven), you won&#039;t find much research and/or documentation out there concerning large groups either. As one could imagine, that would be impossible.  Rather, you will find more individual case studies and documentaries of the more interesting or unusual cases.  Dore should be regarded as no different because of the nature of the treatment, as you so well noted.

Your work here is very well-appreciated!  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well said, Chris! Thank you very kindly for taking the time to explain the difficulties and issues with research regarding therapies such as these. </p>
<p>If one would look at similar treatment therapies performed by OT&#8217;s and vestibular rehab specialists, physical therapists, other types of rehab specialists, (all whom are quietly doing their work without anyone screeming down their necks that it is not scientifally-proven), you won&#8217;t find much research and/or documentation out there concerning large groups either. As one could imagine, that would be impossible.  Rather, you will find more individual case studies and documentaries of the more interesting or unusual cases.  Dore should be regarded as no different because of the nature of the treatment, as you so well noted.</p>
<p>Your work here is very well-appreciated!  :-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
